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TOV Forums > Professional Motorsports > > Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda

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Bullwinkle
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Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-12-2018 10:09
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This is the link. My German is rusty so I also ran it through Google translate as well to see if I was getting the gist of it.

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1-motor-entscheidung-naht-13420491.html

These are the first lines (Google translate with a couple of fixes:

The engine issue at Red Bull has been resolved. ABMS (Autobild Motor Sport) learned: Before the home race in Spielberg in three weeks, the Austrian team wants to announce the engine partner for 2019 and 2020. It's Honda.


Take it for what it's worth. Anyone who speaks German better than I do, have at the translation. Google translate and I are reading it the same way. But there might be nuance there that I am missing.

sennaFAN
Profile for sennaFAN
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-12-2018 11:24
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I had just noticed that on the F1 technical forum too. I wonder what is actually happening. I get the feeling that Red Bull maybe playing Renault but it might just be that the Honda deal will happen. Exciting if slightly scary times !
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-12-2018 12:31
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RB knows they can't be champs with Renault and with Honda now equal to Renault, going with Honda in 2019 and 2020 is the smartest move on the track and for Redbull and Honda business.
CivicGSiR
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Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-12-2018 12:54
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RolledaNsx wrote:
RB knows they can't be champs with Renault and with Honda now equal to Renault, going with Honda in 2019 and 2020 is the smartest move on the track and for Redbull and Honda business.


This sounds like the best option, makes most sense.

Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-12-2018 13:06
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A 2 years deal!

Perhaps they ve signed already with Porsche for 2021? (RB)
Porsche has the know how and tech to prepare for the new regulations and plenty of brains who know well their subject.

Only hope for Honda is to push with Toro Rosso on the long term and propose their 2021 engine to Force India (Name change to happen) also... Let s see.

Good news to me, if Ricci stays!!

zekohonda
Profile for zekohonda
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-12-2018 13:16
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i saw that link also this morning.
thanks bull for translating.
for me in recent times there are too many hints that rb will go with honda, so this is only one hint more. :)
good luck, and I also hope that ricci will stay...cheering for max woulnd't be be easy. :)

Bullwinkle
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Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-12-2018 13:48
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Mikgtir wrote:
A 2 years deal!

Perhaps they ve signed already with Porsche for 2021? (RB)
Porsche has the know how and tech to prepare for the new regulations and plenty of brains who know well their subject.

Only hope for Honda is to push with Toro Rosso on the long term and propose their 2021 engine to Force India (Name change to happen) also... Let s see.

Good news to me, if Ricci stays!!



With Honda's recent F1 history, why would Red Bull commit for longer than two years?

Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-12-2018 16:28
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Well that is the most logical plan.
2021 the new rules and surely new players kick in - so 2 exciting years ahead!

Hope to see a CTR RB edition next year!
Honda needs to get RB influence their marketing.

Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-12-2018 17:46
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Bullwinkle wrote:
Mikgtir wrote:
A 2 years deal!

Perhaps they ve signed already with Porsche for 2021? (RB)
Porsche has the know how and tech to prepare for the new regulations and plenty of brains who know well their subject.

Only hope for Honda is to push with Toro Rosso on the long term and propose their 2021 engine to Force India (Name change to happen) also... Let s see.

Good news to me, if Ricci stays!!



With Honda's recent F1 history, why would Red Bull commit for longer than two years?


Cold but true, + long term and F1 is quite a rare formula

Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-13-2018 15:55
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It'll be a bit nerve-wracking as a fan - but it's also an opportunity that Honda can't pass up. It's the chance at winning - not just races, but championships. And there is only one open slot available to achieve that in today's Formula One - Red Bull Racing.

Is it any wonder that Renault is starting to sound desperate? Right now their PU is winning races, and they are about to lose that.

The top 6 cars - three untouchable teams - lapped every other car in Canada. The Red Bull Renault lapped the 7th place Renault factory team. That's how far ahead the Red Bull team/chassis is, powered by the same PU. If that dominating team is now willing to take another manufacturer's PU, that's an opportunity that cannot be missed. And I wouldn't think Honda is one to pass up a challenge, despite the magnitude.

Bullwinkle
Profile for Bullwinkle
Motorsport--Red Bull switching to Honda this week    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 22:07
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https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-bull-honda-engine-deal-1046734/

"Following close evaluation of the performance steps made by both car manufacturers over the Canadian GP weekend, and well aware that Renault could not guarantee it could keep its engine supply offer open, Red Bull Racing is set on committing to Honda. It is understood its decision was communicated to external parties late on Monday night. ... it is unclear when the move will be made official, but there are suggestions it could come before this weekend's race in Paul Ricard."


sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Motorsport--Red Bull switching to Honda this week    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-18-2018 23:19
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Let us hope it goes better than the marriage with McLaren. Red Bull can be a difficult partner.......

Shit Daniel better stay with Red Bull...........

Looks like I'm heading to next year's Melbourne race.

zekohonda
Profile for zekohonda
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 02:53
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we all all that coming...
but to announce it in before or on french gp is imho not respetful towards renault at home gp.
on the other hand, I will be there! :D

zekohonda
Profile for zekohonda
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 03:06
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it's official now!
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2018/c180619eng.html

zekohonda
Profile for zekohonda
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 03:08
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it's official now!
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2018/c180619eng.html

zekohonda
Profile for zekohonda
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 03:10
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it's official now!
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2018/c180619eng.html

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 03:53
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https://redbullracing.redbull.com/
CafeDelMar90
Profile for CafeDelMar90
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 04:09
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Fantastic news! i really hope this elevates both Honda and Red Bull up to consistently take it to Mercedes and Ferrari.

But the question is with Aston Martin branding, If Honda wins is it classified as a Honda or Aston Martin?

zekohonda
Profile for zekohonda
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 04:43
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good read:
http://en.hondaracingf1.com/insights/honda-supply-red-bull-racing.html
sorry for triple posting above, I always got some error after 'confirm post', and refresh didn't help.

sennaFAN
Profile for sennaFAN
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 05:11
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why am I filled with trepidation ! This should be the best partner Honda could have dreamed of and I really hope they deliver a PU next year that gets wins and is reliable. If they don't it will make their days at Mclaren seem like a walk in the park.
Red Bull aren't daft though. No doubt they have seen the data from Toro Rosso and are comfortable with the power. The fact that the PU performed so well in Canada is a major accomplishment for Honda. Too many times they 'seem' to have promised more only to under deliver. Or maybe that draggy orange car had us all fooled !
Either way this is very exciting. It will be intriguing to see how Honda STR get on from here. I can feel Eric's pain from here as he sees the GP2 engine turning into a swan before his disbelieving eyes ...

Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 05:18
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CafeDelMar90 wrote:
Fantastic news! i really hope this elevates both Honda and Red Bull up to consistently take it to Mercedes and Ferrari.

But the question is with Aston Martin branding, If Honda wins is it classified as a Honda or Aston Martin?


Marketing: Aston Martin (for the masses and TV)
People who know: Honda

Before they did it with Infinity (Renault) then Aston Martin (Renault) , now it's a multy-year deal with Aston, not the best of situations for Honda communication if the association is fruitful.

Please also note that when Toro Rosso does a good race, or when journcrapists talk about Gasly or Hartley, they almost always say Toro Rosso and forget about Honda... Honda needs to prepare marketing campaign that will be more efficient than nowadays in case of success, better communication.

Dren
Profile for Dren
Re: Motorsport--Red Bull switching to Honda this week    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 06:45
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sadlerau wrote:
Let us hope it goes better than the marriage with McLaren. Red Bull can be a difficult partner.......

Shit Daniel better stay with Red Bull...........

Looks like I'm heading to next year's Melbourne race.



Yes, they sure can! I lost a lot of respect for the team when that took place. I've started to like them again. Honda does look like they have their stuff in order, now. I might have to attend the USGP or Canadian GP next year; I've never been to Montreal. Here's hoping Ricciardo stays!

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 07:36
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zekohonda wrote:
good read:
http://en.hondaracingf1.com/insights/honda-supply-red-bull-racing.html
sorry for triple posting above, I always got some error after 'confirm post', and refresh didn't help.


Good read indeed (had checked out from Honda Racing's twitter account).

Otherwise, let me join you guys on the excitement.

I would actually go beyond, and talk about being vindicated. So much has been written about Honda and their GP2 engines, but as I wrote before, that was always on the premise that "McLaren had a winning car save the engine".

As we've seen this year, however, when powered by the same engine and despite having one of the best drivers in the world, McLaren's cars are good enough to be lapped by RedBulls (and keep having the slowest trap speeds of every car on the track). Now, I don't expect any media outlet to cover that story, but that simply dismantles most of the blame on Honda.

Sure, they were blowing up engines, but from all we've read they were also constrained by an impossible and disrespectful partner requirements.

Now, the fact that today, having all the data, Red-Bull decided to move with Honda, is the final touch to vindicate the brand and its tireless fans. I'm so looking forward to have Honda finally powering a race-win capable car (this time, whether they win or not will finally be down to Honda). Hoping for the best.

Midi_Amp
Profile for Midi_Amp
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 09:23
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danielgr wrote:
zekohonda wrote:
good read:
http://en.hondaracingf1.com/insights/honda-supply-red-bull-racing.html
sorry for triple posting above, I always got some error after 'confirm post', and refresh didn't help.


Good read indeed (had checked out from Honda Racing's twitter account).

Otherwise, let me join you guys on the excitement.

I would actually go beyond, and talk about being vindicated. So much has been written about Honda and their GP2 engines, but as I wrote before, that was always on the premise that "McLaren had a winning car save the engine".

As we've seen this year, however, when powered by the same engine and despite having one of the best drivers in the world, McLaren's cars are good enough to be lapped by RedBulls (and keep having the slowest trap speeds of every car on the track). Now, I don't expect any media outlet to cover that story, but that simply dismantles most of the blame on Honda.

Sure, they were blowing up engines, but from all we've read they were also constrained by an impossible and disrespectful partner requirements.

Now, the fact that today, having all the data, Red-Bull decided to move with Honda, is the final touch to vindicate the brand and its tireless fans. I'm so looking forward to have Honda finally powering a race-win capable car (this time, whether they win or not will finally be down to Honda). Hoping for the best.


I really hope that the decision is based purely on data and not a hint of emotional spat that underlies Redbull and Renault for the past years.

McLaren truly is lost, reading on forums and watching YouTubers, there is a revolt brewing inside where McLaren workers are not happy with the current F1 team condition. The rumors even drags Mansour Ojjeh to intervene. It's far too obvious that their problems are more than just engine supplier(s).

sennaFAN
Profile for sennaFAN
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 09:46
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Fingers crossed that Adrian Newey stays at Red Bull. Lots of rumours kicking about at present. I assume Honda would have made sure he was staying before committing to this new venture
CarPhreakD
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Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 10:44
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It's not true vindication until the new partnership produces cars running at least as well as Renault's units, if not better. Considering Honda's past two decades of 'luck', whether by external factors or self induced, there's no guarantee there won't be another McLaren level meltdown over the next few seasons. I'm optimistic, but the proof is in the first tests.
Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 11:47
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zekohonda wrote:
we all all that coming...
but to announce it in before or on french gp is imho not respetful towards renault at home gp.
on the other hand, I will be there! :D

In reality it's the other way around - this is what Renault wanted, while Red Bull wanted to wait.

But Renault F1 managing director Abiteboul now insists that Austria is too late for Renault, and he wants a firm decision before the upcoming French GP.

Asked by Motorsport.com about Abiteboul's desire for an answer before the French GP, Red Bull's Helmut Marko said: "He won't get it."

Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 12:06
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danielgr wrote:
Sure, they were blowing up engines, but from all we've read they were also constrained by an impossible and disrespectful partner requirements.
Remember on the 2nd day of testing, McLaren spent most of the day not running because of an exhaust issue. Boullier said "We didn't have the reliability we had hoped for in winter testing, but all the issues we faced have since been addressed back at the factory." Then in Melbourne FP1 they had another exhaust issue. And now in Canada Alonso retired because of an apparent exhaust issue. Boullier says, "Although very frustrating, itís an unusual problem, and one that we donít expect to affect us going forward." Mmhmm

Meanwhile: Abiteboul said Renault's new engine did exactly what it was supposed to do in Canada, and it also showed good reliability over the six cars. "I stopped breathing for a moment when I saw Alonso complaining about his ERS," he said. "But I understand it was another problem [not a Renault part]."

So once again it is the McLaren team/chassis/integration that is the issue and not the PU itself. Except while Honda accepted all the blame in silence, Renault is speaking up to point out when the retirements are not their fault!

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 12:25
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Don't be surprise that the AM's Ferrari 488 Pista comp has a Honda engine.
AM's Hyper Car will have the Cosworth 6.5 V12 because that is what customers want and that size of engine is needed to meet HP goal(1100-1200 HP).

F1...2019 Aston Martin Reb Bull power by Honda

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-19-2018 13:11
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Potenza wrote:
danielgr wrote:
Sure, they were blowing up engines, but from all we've read they were also constrained by an impossible and disrespectful partner requirements.
Remember on the 2nd day of testing, McLaren spent most of the day not running because of an exhaust issue. Boullier said "We didn't have the reliability we had hoped for in winter testing, but all the issues we faced have since been addressed back at the factory." Then in Melbourne FP1 they had another exhaust issue. And now in Canada Alonso retired because of an apparent exhaust issue. Boullier says, "Although very frustrating, itís an unusual problem, and one that we donít expect to affect us going forward." Mmhmm

Meanwhile: Abiteboul said Renault's new engine did exactly what it was supposed to do in Canada, and it also showed good reliability over the six cars. "I stopped breathing for a moment when I saw Alonso complaining about his ERS," he said. "But I understand it was another problem [not a Renault part]."

So once again it is the McLaren team/chassis/integration that is the issue and not the PU itself. Except while Honda accepted all the blame in silence, Renault is speaking up to point out when the retirements are not their fault!



Yeah this has been discussed extensively but while it's true that McLaren spent a lot of time throwing Honda under the bus, Honda's inability to work with its partner or at least be vocal about what it needs and its apparent misgivings also shoulders a large amount of the blame.

Integration of chassis and engine is not a trivial thing- if Honda didn't think it would work, they should have said so, especially as they are pumping their own money into the works. At least some of the issues that Honda had early on were also amateur hour mistakes, like the oil baffle that didn't work.

Let's not forget that Honda also had to undergo management changes several times before it looked like they found a footing and a real plan of development. Since they seem to have found a formula that worked for Toro Rosso, I'm hopeful that the same structure will carry through to RBR because I can easily see RBR being just as demanding as McLaren.


 
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