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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas

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longhorn
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2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-06-2018 09:48
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https://www.autoblog.com/2018/08/03/tesla-model-3-sales-top-10/

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/08/02/tesla-model-3-top-5-trade-ins/

The BMW3, Honda Accord and Civic are among the top trade ins for the Tesla 3. BMW will have an answer next year with their expanded I line. Honda of course is more secretive, but will be interesting to see their response, and no , do say, "Clarity".

HondaForever
Profile for HondaForever
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-06-2018 10:35
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One of the more interesting comments from the first link..

"I'm an old school Goldwater conservative and it strikes me as very odd how many other self-proclaimed conservatives are rallying against an American-owned company that builds cars in America with American workers. Tesla is leading the world in electric vehicle production and development and that should be a point of pride for the USA. Would you rather see China leading the way? Or Korea? Some ICE drivers don't like the fact that EVs are becoming popular... I drive a 2018 Raptor and it's no assault on my masculinity that some folks choose electric vehicles, it's their preference. The fact that those dollars spent on Model 3, Model S and Model X vehicles are staying here and not being shipped to Germany or Japan is cause for celebration, not mass hysteria that these comments showcase. Engineers, retail employees and assembly workers have jobs here in the states because Tesla exists. If you don't like Elon, don't buy one of his cars. But don't sit around bitching and moaning about how the company should fail when it's contributing to our national economy and providing our fellow Americans with work. Tesla has quickly made an Apple-like following that will keep lining up to buy what is being sold, like it or not. I'm proud that an American company has the wherewithal to create and dominate a growing segment of the vehicle market in a way that no other global company can touch. Keep up the good work Tesla."

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-06-2018 18:39
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HondaForever wrote:
One of the more interesting comments from the first link..

"I'm an old school Goldwater conservative and it strikes me as very odd how many other self-proclaimed conservatives are rallying against an American-owned company that builds cars in America with American workers. Tesla is leading the world in electric vehicle production and development and that should be a point of pride for the USA. Would you rather see China leading the way? Or Korea? Some ICE drivers don't like the fact that EVs are becoming popular... I drive a 2018 Raptor and it's no assault on my masculinity that some folks choose electric vehicles, it's their preference. The fact that those dollars spent on Model 3, Model S and Model X vehicles are staying here and not being shipped to Germany or Japan is cause for celebration, not mass hysteria that these comments showcase. Engineers, retail employees and assembly workers have jobs here in the states because Tesla exists. If you don't like Elon, don't buy one of his cars. But don't sit around bitching and moaning about how the company should fail when it's contributing to our national economy and providing our fellow Americans with work. Tesla has quickly made an Apple-like following that will keep lining up to buy what is being sold, like it or not. I'm proud that an American company has the wherewithal to create and dominate a growing segment of the vehicle market in a way that no other global company can touch. Keep up the good work Tesla."



That guy is definitely a Goldwater conservative in that he is about 50 years behind the way the world actually works...

bnilhome
Profile for bnilhome
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-07-2018 13:22
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I think it's great all the success that Tesla is having and the fact that an American company has caught many of the luxury European brands off guard in the performance electronic luxury market. With that said, I am curious what others are thinking about the new Model 3 relative to other luxury brands (you can include Acura as well).
HondaForever
Profile for HondaForever
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-07-2018 14:25
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bnilhome wrote:
I think it's great all the success that Tesla is having and the fact that an American company has caught many of the luxury European brands off guard in the performance electronic luxury market. With that said, I am curious what others are thinking about the new Model 3 relative to other luxury brands (you can include Acura as well).

For what it's worth, Consumer Report's take on the Model 3

https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-review-falls-short-of-consumer-reports-recommendation/

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/tesla-model-3-gets-cr-recommendation-after-braking-update/

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-07-2018 15:24
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Musk just pulled a fast one today! Tweet that he was taking the company private at a price of $420 a share. The stock went crazy until the exchange froze the Tesla stock.

The Stock Exchange isn't stupid to his ponzi but he did gain enough before they froze it to pay his bonds due now(he gain like a billion today).
So he can pay his bill with stock rather than cash.

I wonder if the AG and PD will be serving an arrest warrant to him soon?

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-07-2018 15:38
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Notice how they pooh pooh the horrendous ergonomics of the Tesla's interiors.

I've driven the X and S and was astounded at how the controls are either all clustered into the touchscreen or the THREE stalks on the column. I mean, how about putting the HVAC controls on their own and having the speedometer/fuel/trip computer/turn signals on a proper dash? And moving the shifter from a column stalk to the console?

It's fricking awful, but the Autoporn Propaganda Machine ignores it.


RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-07-2018 15:41
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Model 3 is the hottest car now the West Side LA.
DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-07-2018 15:44
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RolledaNsx wrote:
Musk just pulled a fast one today! Tweet that he was taking the company private at a price of $420 a share. The stock went crazy until the exchange froze the Tesla stock.

The Stock Exchange isn't stupid to his ponzi but he did gain enough before they froze it to pay his bonds due now(he gain like a billion today).
So he can pay his bill with stock rather than cash.

I wonder if the AG and PD will be serving an arrest warrant to him soon?



Here is what he has to say.

Earlier today, I announced that Iím considering taking Tesla private at a price of $420/share. I wanted to let you know my rationale for this, and why I think this is the best path forward.

First, a final decision has not yet been made, but the reason for doing this is all about creating the environment for Tesla to operate best. As a public company, we are subject to wild swings in our stock price that can be a major distraction for everyone working at Tesla, all of whom are shareholders. Being public also subjects us to the quarterly earnings cycle that puts enormous pressure on Tesla to make decisions that may be right for a given quarter, but not necessarily right for the long-term. Finally, as the most shorted stock in the history of the stock market, being public means that there are large numbers of people who have the incentive to attack the company.

I fundamentally believe that we are at our best when everyone is focused on executing, when we can remain focused on our long-term mission, and when there are not perverse incentives for people to try to harm what weíre all trying to achieve.

This is especially true for a company like Tesla that has a long-term, forward-looking mission. SpaceX is a perfect example: it is far more operationally efficient, and that is largely due to the fact that it is privately held. This is not to say that it will make sense for Tesla to be private over the long-term. In the future, once Tesla enters a phase of slower, more predictable growth, it will likely make sense to return to the public markets.

Hereís what I envision being private would mean for all shareholders, including all of our employees.

First, I would like to structure this so that all shareholders have a choice. Either they can stay investors in a private Tesla or they can be bought out at $420 per share, which is a 20% premium over the stock price following our Q2 earnings call (which had already increased by 16%). My hope is for all shareholders to remain, but if they prefer to be bought out, then this would enable that to happen at a nice premium.

Second, my intention is for all Tesla employees to remain shareholders of the company, just as is the case at SpaceX. If we were to go private, employees would still be able to periodically sell their shares and exercise their options. This would enable you to still share in the growing value of the company that you have all worked so hard to build over time.

Third, the intention is not to merge SpaceX and Tesla. They would continue to have separate ownership and governance structures. However, the structure envisioned for Tesla is similar in many ways to the SpaceX structure: external shareholders and employee shareholders have an opportunity to sell or buy approximately every six months.

Finally, this has nothing to do with accumulating control for myself. I own about 20% of the company now, and I donít envision that being substantially different after any deal is completed.

Basically, Iím trying to accomplish an outcome where Tesla can operate at its best, free from as much distraction and short-term thinking as possible, and where there is as little change for all of our investors, including all of our employees, as possible.

This proposal to go private would ultimately be finalized through a vote of our shareholders. If the process ends the way I expect it will, a private Tesla would ultimately be an enormous opportunity for all of us. Either way, the future is very bright and weíll keep fighting to achieve our mission.

Thanks, Elon


silverf16
Profile for silverf16
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-08-2018 09:09
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Tesla is an American car company that has not made a profit during any fiscal year and is spending Tax payer dollars. For all the good reasons people like him, he behaves like a child when he or his products are criticized. And his latest tweet is furthering his Ponzi scheme because his company is bleeding and he is on the verge of having his title changed. He is an egomaniac and cares more about his vision than those around him.

Dren
Profile for Dren
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-08-2018 09:38
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Far less scrutiny if he goes private. If he doesn't have secured funding like he said he has, he'll be subject to criminal punishment and be liable for all of the losses to short sellers. It looks like he's hoping/expecting a large percentage of current holders to retain their shares.
qingcong
Profile for qingcong
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-08-2018 12:49
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silverf16 wrote:
He is an egomaniac and cares more about his vision than those around him.




What vision? His knee jerk actions don't indicate a guy with a vision.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-08-2018 15:35
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RolledaNsx wrote:
Model 3 is the hottest car now the West Side LA.


So? Appeal to the Majority is a logical fallacy.

Besides, sorry to burst you, but the West Side of LA is very status driven. Lots of automotive lemmings. I guess now we know why BMW 3/4s are not selling so well.

I'm just waiting to see a Tesla in a high speed pursuit. Seriously, if I wanted to get into a high speed pursuit I'd get a '14 or '15 Accord iMMD or a Jetta turbo diesel. Something with enough range to leave the State. Those Teslas will be lucky to make it past Point Mugu or the Grapevine.

Down here in Irvine/Newport there aren't that many Model 3s. If people want a Tesla they get an X.... although there's a few older Ss.


owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-08-2018 17:03
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TonyEX wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
Model 3 is the hottest car now the West Side LA.


So? Appeal to the Majority is a logical fallacy.

Besides, sorry to burst you, but the West Side of LA is very status driven. Lots of automotive lemmings. I guess now we know why BMW 3/4s are not selling so well.

I'm just waiting to see a Tesla in a high speed pursuit. Seriously, if I wanted to get into a high speed pursuit I'd get a '14 or '15 Accord iMMD or a Jetta turbo diesel. Something with enough range to leave the State. Those Teslas will be lucky to make it past Point Mugu or the Grapevine.

Down here in Irvine/Newport there aren't that many Model 3s. If people want a Tesla they get an X.... although there's a few older Ss.




Based on the number of Model 3's I see driving around Las Vegas, you would think it was the best selling car in America. Talk about status driven...

It's still hideous though, especially compared to the Model S, which was unequivocally sexy.

qingcong
Profile for qingcong
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-08-2018 17:04
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owequitit wrote:

That guy is definitely a Goldwater conservative in that he is about 50 years behind the way the world actually works...




Please elaborate on what part of his world view is 50 years behind.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-08-2018 18:01
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owequitit wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
Model 3 is the hottest car now the West Side LA.


So? Appeal to the Majority is a logical fallacy.

Besides, sorry to burst you, but the West Side of LA is very status driven. Lots of automotive lemmings. I guess now we know why BMW 3/4s are not selling so well.

I'm just waiting to see a Tesla in a high speed pursuit. Seriously, if I wanted to get into a high speed pursuit I'd get a '14 or '15 Accord iMMD or a Jetta turbo diesel. Something with enough range to leave the State. Those Teslas will be lucky to make it past Point Mugu or the Grapevine.

Down here in Irvine/Newport there aren't that many Model 3s. If people want a Tesla they get an X.... although there's a few older Ss.




Based on the number of Model 3's I see driving around Las Vegas, you would think it was the best selling car in America. Talk about status driven...

It's still hideous though, especially compared to the Model S, which was unequivocally sexy.



The Model 3, IMHO, doesn't quite work. It looks like someone squeezed the S so has odd dimensions. Looks too tall. OTOH, the S has presence.... it looks like it has "road hugging weight"... low, long and wide.

...

Vegas is the MOST STATUS DRIVEN place I've ever seen in my life.

It's all bling and extremely materialistic.

We thought about retiring there, so we spent some time driving around the place and checking out the real state. Gated states within gates states is no place when you come from a city where you can keep your garage door open all day long with your cars with the keys on the seat and all kinds of tool chests and what not. And no one steals anything.

No way. Nice place to visit, have the wife gamble a little, me smoke some cigars in the casino, have a drink by the waterfall at the Wynn -smoking a cigar- and then eating some good dinners, but that's all.

I love the Wynn, but we usually stay next door at a casino-less all suite hotel. My wife gets a nice one bedroom suite with kitchen, dining/living room, bedroom and very large bathroom with a spa for less than the Wynn. So we bring our food and wine and make our own breakfast and lunches. It works great. It's a very short walk to the Wynn. And because it faces away from the strip, it's nice and quiet at night on the veranda.

Vegas is not cheap anymore, so for a while we did San Francisco instead because it has (had?) much better cuisine, but that place sadly has really gone to CRAP in the last ten years... so it's Vegas.

We've done Buellton/Solvang and San Luis Obispo (SLO) on occasion, but those are small fry, and Buellton/Solvang, in particular, shuts down after sundown.

Or Palm Springs. That can be nice.

I doubt they have many Teslas in Solvang or SLO. Palm Springs might be more like my area... mostly X and S.

Hell, I recently put up an above ground 10 foot pool in my upstairs deck (it was built for it, tru$$$t me). So with that and the big Brown Jordan table in our atrium it feels like we can vacation in our home.

But I digressed....






Chris_6MT
Profile for Chris_6MT
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-08-2018 20:45
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qingcong wrote:
owequitit wrote:

That guy is definitely a Goldwater conservative in that he is about 50 years behind the way the world actually works...




Please elaborate on what part of his world view is 50 years behind.



+1. I agreed with that comment except the comparison to Apple, which has notoriously Ďreinvestedí itís primarily domestic revenues via offshore capital holdings and capex. Credit to Tesla for investing so much domestically when he could have built his gigafactories in Mexico, regardless of my personal belief that Elon is running a Ponzi scheme.

aids333
Profile for aids333
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-08-2018 21:40
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longhorn wrote:
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/08/03/tesla-model-3-sales-top-10/

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/08/02/tesla-model-3-top-5-trade-ins/

The BMW3, Honda Accord and Civic are among the top trade ins for the Tesla 3. BMW will have an answer next year with their expanded I line. Honda of course is more secretive, but will be interesting to see their response, and no , do say, "Clarity".



I donít know how this is a surprise to anyone given that the Accord and Civic are among the best selling cars over the past 20 years. If you were getting rid of a car to get any car, chances are itís either an accord or Civic...and even more likely for the Model 3 given they are of similar dimensions.

Iím sure one day soon Honda will have a decent full electric; but until then I applaud Tesla for showing the industry that electric isnít niche anymore - so get on it H.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-08-2018 22:12
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TonyEX wrote:
owequitit wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
Model 3 is the hottest car now the West Side LA.


So? Appeal to the Majority is a logical fallacy.

Besides, sorry to burst you, but the West Side of LA is very status driven. Lots of automotive lemmings. I guess now we know why BMW 3/4s are not selling so well.

I'm just waiting to see a Tesla in a high speed pursuit. Seriously, if I wanted to get into a high speed pursuit I'd get a '14 or '15 Accord iMMD or a Jetta turbo diesel. Something with enough range to leave the State. Those Teslas will be lucky to make it past Point Mugu or the Grapevine.

Down here in Irvine/Newport there aren't that many Model 3s. If people want a Tesla they get an X.... although there's a few older Ss.




Based on the number of Model 3's I see driving around Las Vegas, you would think it was the best selling car in America. Talk about status driven...

It's still hideous though, especially compared to the Model S, which was unequivocally sexy.



The Model 3, IMHO, doesn't quite work. It looks like someone squeezed the S so has odd dimensions. Looks too tall. OTOH, the S has presence.... it looks like it has "road hugging weight"... low, long and wide.

...

Vegas is the MOST STATUS DRIVEN place I've ever seen in my life.

It's all bling and extremely materialistic.

We thought about retiring there, so we spent some time driving around the place and checking out the real state. Gated states within gates states is no place when you come from a city where you can keep your garage door open all day long with your cars with the keys on the seat and all kinds of tool chests and what not. And no one steals anything.

No way. Nice place to visit, have the wife gamble a little, me smoke some cigars in the casino, have a drink by the waterfall at the Wynn -smoking a cigar- and then eating some good dinners, but that's all.

I love the Wynn, but we usually stay next door at a casino-less all suite hotel. My wife gets a nice one bedroom suite with kitchen, dining/living room, bedroom and very large bathroom with a spa for less than the Wynn. So we bring our food and wine and make our own breakfast and lunches. It works great. It's a very short walk to the Wynn. And because it faces away from the strip, it's nice and quiet at night on the veranda.

Vegas is not cheap anymore, so for a while we did San Francisco instead because it has (had?) much better cuisine, but that place sadly has really gone to CRAP in the last ten years... so it's Vegas.

We've done Buellton/Solvang and San Luis Obispo (SLO) on occasion, but those are small fry, and Buellton/Solvang, in particular, shuts down after sundown.

Or Palm Springs. That can be nice.

I doubt they have many Teslas in Solvang or SLO. Palm Springs might be more like my area... mostly X and S.

Hell, I recently put up an above ground 10 foot pool in my upstairs deck (it was built for it, tru$$$t me). So with that and the big Brown Jordan table in our atrium it feels like we can vacation in our home.

But I digressed....








There are actually some really nice areas in Vegas. But I digress.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-08-2018 23:42
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qingcong wrote:
owequitit wrote:

That guy is definitely a Goldwater conservative in that he is about 50 years behind the way the world actually works...




Please elaborate on what part of his world view is 50 years behind.



"I'm an old school Goldwater conservative and it strikes me as very odd how many other self-proclaimed conservatives are rallying against an American-owned company that builds cars in America with American workers. Tesla is leading the world in electric vehicle production and development and that should be a point of pride for the USA. Would you rather see China leading the way? Or Korea? Some ICE drivers don't like the fact that EVs are becoming popular... I drive a 2018 Raptor and it's no assault on my masculinity that some folks choose electric vehicles, it's their preference. The fact that those dollars spent on Model 3, Model S and Model X vehicles are staying here and not being shipped to Germany or Japan is cause for celebration, not mass hysteria that these comments showcase. Engineers, retail employees and assembly workers have jobs here in the states because Tesla exists. If you don't like Elon, don't buy one of his cars. But don't sit around bitching and moaning about how the company should fail when it's contributing to our national economy and providing our fellow Americans with work. Tesla has quickly made an Apple-like following that will keep lining up to buy what is being sold, like it or not. I'm proud that an American company has the wherewithal to create and dominate a growing segment of the vehicle market in a way that no other global company can touch. Keep up the good work Tesla."


Well, let's break it down.

1) He talks about it being an "American owned company." But what is an "American Company?" According to him, it is a company with its headquarters in America that uses American workers to build cars. It's a very quaint 1960's view of auto manufacturing (ironically about the time Goldwater was running, and ironically a 50 year old world view).

The problem with this assumption is that A) their STOCK (shareholders are the real owners) is owned and trade worldwide. Their revenue is derived from sources located worldwide and increasingly, their revenue will not only be sourced from places like China, but their cars will be built there as well. B) Much of their parts content comes from overseas, so if it is made of foreign parts that are merely put together in the US, does that make it an American company?

Are Honda and Toyota American companies? They both have headquarters here, they both employee thousands of workers here and manufacture upwards of 1 million cars annually here using American workers in American factories. They both use parts that are predominantly built in America and sell the majority of their volume to Americans (we are still both companies largest single market).

Both Honda and Toyota build cars that are largely designed and developed in America.

Both Honda and Toyota sell ownership stakes on the American stock exchange.

Both Honda and Toyota spend a large % of their profits and R&D money in America (as opposed to hoarding it overseas as is assumed by Goldwater era "conservatives"). Interestingly, in the last 50 years, GM, Ford and Chrysler have increasingly moved manufacturing OUT of the US, have increasingly sourced parts from OUTSIDE the US and have increasingly outsourced R&D facilities to companies there were performing the functions outside of the US. Are THEY American companies?

2) The Europeans are growing in the US (or at least they were until Trump started his tariff wars), the Japanese have been here for decades and the "US" automakers have increasingly moved their capacity elsewhere to chase cheap labor.

3) Tesla has vehemently opposed unionization by the UAW (not that I blame them). But as any good American parading in the vein of Goldwater, the right for workers to assemble and seek representation should be respected... After all, not only would that be the more libertarian way, but it is all part of the free market working.

The reason his views are 50 years old is because his statements indicate directly that he has no idea the way the modern market works and has worked for some time. "American" company doesn't mean what it did the context of how he used it.

Yes, people SHOULD be allowed to buy what they want, but to proselytize Tesla as being any different than any other multi-national company just doesn't make sense. I drive Hondas and if there was ever a car that had its masculinity challenged, it is Honda.

Dren
Profile for Dren
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-09-2018 09:49
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And didn't the Saudis just buy a bunch of stock? Ironically, that does make it more 'American'.
silverf16
Profile for silverf16
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-09-2018 10:04
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SEC is now investigating Tesla.
Power Of Dreams
Profile for Power Of Dreams
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-09-2018 11:32
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owequitit wrote:
HondaForever wrote:
One of the more interesting comments from the first link..

"I'm an old school Goldwater conservative and it strikes me as very odd how many other self-proclaimed conservatives are rallying against an American-owned company that builds cars in America with American workers. Tesla is leading the world in electric vehicle production and development and that should be a point of pride for the USA. Would you rather see China leading the way? Or Korea? Some ICE drivers don't like the fact that EVs are becoming popular... I drive a 2018 Raptor and it's no assault on my masculinity that some folks choose electric vehicles, it's their preference. The fact that those dollars spent on Model 3, Model S and Model X vehicles are staying here and not being shipped to Germany or Japan is cause for celebration, not mass hysteria that these comments showcase. Engineers, retail employees and assembly workers have jobs here in the states because Tesla exists. If you don't like Elon, don't buy one of his cars. But don't sit around bitching and moaning about how the company should fail when it's contributing to our national economy and providing our fellow Americans with work. Tesla has quickly made an Apple-like following that will keep lining up to buy what is being sold, like it or not. I'm proud that an American company has the wherewithal to create and dominate a growing segment of the vehicle market in a way that no other global company can touch. Keep up the good work Tesla."



That guy is definitely a Goldwater conservative in that he is about 50 years behind the way the world actually works...



Someone call the fire department because that was a burn!

If it wasn't for the government trough, Tesla wouldn't exist. As a California resident don't get me started on how there are tax incentives to buy Teslas. If you can afford a Tesla, you don't need a tax incentive.

Jld94
Profile for Jld94
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-09-2018 16:15
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TonyEX wrote:
owequitit wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
Model 3 is the hottest car now the West Side LA.


So? Appeal to the Majority is a logical fallacy.

Besides, sorry to burst you, but the West Side of LA is very status driven. Lots of automotive lemmings. I guess now we know why BMW 3/4s are not selling so well.

I'm just waiting to see a Tesla in a high speed pursuit. Seriously, if I wanted to get into a high speed pursuit I'd get a '14 or '15 Accord iMMD or a Jetta turbo diesel. Something with enough range to leave the State. Those Teslas will be lucky to make it past Point Mugu or the Grapevine.

Down here in Irvine/Newport there aren't that many Model 3s. If people want a Tesla they get an X.... although there's a few older Ss.




Based on the number of Model 3's I see driving around Las Vegas, you would think it was the best selling car in America. Talk about status driven...

It's still hideous though, especially compared to the Model S, which was unequivocally sexy.



The Model 3, IMHO, doesn't quite work. It looks like someone squeezed the S so has odd dimensions. Looks too tall. OTOH, the S has presence.... it looks like it has "road hugging weight"... low, long and wide.

...

Vegas is the MOST STATUS DRIVEN place I've ever seen in my life.

It's all bling and extremely materialistic.

We thought about retiring there, so we spent some time driving around the place and checking out the real state. Gated states within gates states is no place when you come from a city where you can keep your garage door open all day long with your cars with the keys on the seat and all kinds of tool chests and what not. And no one steals anything.

No way. Nice place to visit, have the wife gamble a little, me smoke some cigars in the casino, have a drink by the waterfall at the Wynn -smoking a cigar- and then eating some good dinners, but that's all.

I love the Wynn, but we usually stay next door at a casino-less all suite hotel. My wife gets a nice one bedroom suite with kitchen, dining/living room, bedroom and very large bathroom with a spa for less than the Wynn. So we bring our food and wine and make our own breakfast and lunches. It works great. It's a very short walk to the Wynn. And because it faces away from the strip, it's nice and quiet at night on the veranda.

Vegas is not cheap anymore, so for a while we did San Francisco instead because it has (had?) much better cuisine, but that place sadly has really gone to CRAP in the last ten years... so it's Vegas.

We've done Buellton/Solvang and San Luis Obispo (SLO) on occasion, but those are small fry, and Buellton/Solvang, in particular, shuts down after sundown.

Or Palm Springs. That can be nice.

I doubt they have many Teslas in Solvang or SLO. Palm Springs might be more like my area... mostly X and S.

Hell, I recently put up an above ground 10 foot pool in my upstairs deck (it was built for it, tru$$$t me). So with that and the big Brown Jordan table in our atrium it feels like we can vacation in our home.

But I digressed....








Cool story bro

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-09-2018 16:38
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
owequitit wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
owequitit wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
Model 3 is the hottest car now the West Side LA.


So? Appeal to the Majority is a logical fallacy.

Besides, sorry to burst you, but the West Side of LA is very status driven. Lots of automotive lemmings. I guess now we know why BMW 3/4s are not selling so well.

I'm just waiting to see a Tesla in a high speed pursuit. Seriously, if I wanted to get into a high speed pursuit I'd get a '14 or '15 Accord iMMD or a Jetta turbo diesel. Something with enough range to leave the State. Those Teslas will be lucky to make it past Point Mugu or the Grapevine.

Down here in Irvine/Newport there aren't that many Model 3s. If people want a Tesla they get an X.... although there's a few older Ss.




Based on the number of Model 3's I see driving around Las Vegas, you would think it was the best selling car in America. Talk about status driven...

It's still hideous though, especially compared to the Model S, which was unequivocally sexy.



The Model 3, IMHO, doesn't quite work. It looks like someone squeezed the S so has odd dimensions. Looks too tall. OTOH, the S has presence.... it looks like it has "road hugging weight"... low, long and wide.

...

Vegas is the MOST STATUS DRIVEN place I've ever seen in my life.

It's all bling and extremely materialistic.

We thought about retiring there, so we spent some time driving around the place and checking out the real state. Gated states within gates states is no place when you come from a city where you can keep your garage door open all day long with your cars with the keys on the seat and all kinds of tool chests and what not. And no one steals anything.

No way. Nice place to visit, have the wife gamble a little, me smoke some cigars in the casino, have a drink by the waterfall at the Wynn -smoking a cigar- and then eating some good dinners, but that's all.

I love the Wynn, but we usually stay next door at a casino-less all suite hotel. My wife gets a nice one bedroom suite with kitchen, dining/living room, bedroom and very large bathroom with a spa for less than the Wynn. So we bring our food and wine and make our own breakfast and lunches. It works great. It's a very short walk to the Wynn. And because it faces away from the strip, it's nice and quiet at night on the veranda.

Vegas is not cheap anymore, so for a while we did San Francisco instead because it has (had?) much better cuisine, but that place sadly has really gone to CRAP in the last ten years... so it's Vegas.

We've done Buellton/Solvang and San Luis Obispo (SLO) on occasion, but those are small fry, and Buellton/Solvang, in particular, shuts down after sundown.

Or Palm Springs. That can be nice.

I doubt they have many Teslas in Solvang or SLO. Palm Springs might be more like my area... mostly X and S.

Hell, I recently put up an above ground 10 foot pool in my upstairs deck (it was built for it, tru$$$t me). So with that and the big Brown Jordan table in our atrium it feels like we can vacation in our home.

But I digressed....








There are actually some really nice areas in Vegas. But I digress.



We drove up to Summerlin. Looked at new and used homes. Talked to people who live there. We found folks outside, and we stopped the car and struck up conversations... many of them had come from Orange County to retire in Vegas.

The people were very nice, mostly older and mellow. We could live within Summerlin for sure.

But once you drive down into Vegas proper it's just too much like a combination of East LA, Century City and Disneyland. Hectic, pushy, loud, bad drivers, etc...

Then we checked the crime rate. Wow!

It does have good hospitals and I might get a job working for a civilian contractor in one of them secret AF bases.... should I want to keep working.

Go on and digress.... I don't really mind.



Dren
Profile for Dren
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-10-2018 07:30
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
A college friend of mine got car jacked at gun point in Vegas. I heard the crime rate there isn't great.
qingcong
Profile for qingcong
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-10-2018 23:31
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owequitit wrote:


Well, let's break it down.

1) He talks about it being an "American owned company." But what is an "American Company?" According to him, it is a company with its headquarters in America that uses American workers to build cars. It's a very quaint 1960's view of auto manufacturing (ironically about the time Goldwater was running, and ironically a 50 year old world view).

The problem with this assumption is that A) their STOCK (shareholders are the real owners) is owned and trade worldwide. Their revenue is derived from sources located worldwide and increasingly, their revenue will not only be sourced from places like China, but their cars will be built there as well. B) Much of their parts content comes from overseas, so if it is made of foreign parts that are merely put together in the US, does that make it an American company?

Are Honda and Toyota American companies? They both have headquarters here, they both employee thousands of workers here and manufacture upwards of 1 million cars annually here using American workers in American factories. They both use parts that are predominantly built in America and sell the majority of their volume to Americans (we are still both companies largest single market).

Both Honda and Toyota build cars that are largely designed and developed in America.

Both Honda and Toyota sell ownership stakes on the American stock exchange.

Both Honda and Toyota spend a large % of their profits and R&D money in America (as opposed to hoarding it overseas as is assumed by Goldwater era "conservatives"). Interestingly, in the last 50 years, GM, Ford and Chrysler have increasingly moved manufacturing OUT of the US, have increasingly sourced parts from OUTSIDE the US and have increasingly outsourced R&D facilities to companies there were performing the functions outside of the US. Are THEY American companies?

2) The Europeans are growing in the US (or at least they were until Trump started his tariff wars), the Japanese have been here for decades and the "US" automakers have increasingly moved their capacity elsewhere to chase cheap labor.

3) Tesla has vehemently opposed unionization by the UAW (not that I blame them). But as any good American parading in the vein of Goldwater, the right for workers to assemble and seek representation should be respected... After all, not only would that be the more libertarian way, but it is all part of the free market working.

The reason his views are 50 years old is because his statements indicate directly that he has no idea the way the modern market works and has worked for some time. "American" company doesn't mean what it did the context of how he used it.

Yes, people SHOULD be allowed to buy what they want, but to proselytize Tesla as being any different than any other multi-national company just doesn't make sense. I drive Hondas and if there was ever a car that had its masculinity challenged, it is Honda.




So in your view, is there such a thing as an American company these days?

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-11-2018 02:27
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:
owequitit wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
owequitit wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
Model 3 is the hottest car now the West Side LA.


So? Appeal to the Majority is a logical fallacy.

Besides, sorry to burst you, but the West Side of LA is very status driven. Lots of automotive lemmings. I guess now we know why BMW 3/4s are not selling so well.

I'm just waiting to see a Tesla in a high speed pursuit. Seriously, if I wanted to get into a high speed pursuit I'd get a '14 or '15 Accord iMMD or a Jetta turbo diesel. Something with enough range to leave the State. Those Teslas will be lucky to make it past Point Mugu or the Grapevine.

Down here in Irvine/Newport there aren't that many Model 3s. If people want a Tesla they get an X.... although there's a few older Ss.




Based on the number of Model 3's I see driving around Las Vegas, you would think it was the best selling car in America. Talk about status driven...

It's still hideous though, especially compared to the Model S, which was unequivocally sexy.



The Model 3, IMHO, doesn't quite work. It looks like someone squeezed the S so has odd dimensions. Looks too tall. OTOH, the S has presence.... it looks like it has "road hugging weight"... low, long and wide.

...

Vegas is the MOST STATUS DRIVEN place I've ever seen in my life.

It's all bling and extremely materialistic.

We thought about retiring there, so we spent some time driving around the place and checking out the real state. Gated states within gates states is no place when you come from a city where you can keep your garage door open all day long with your cars with the keys on the seat and all kinds of tool chests and what not. And no one steals anything.

No way. Nice place to visit, have the wife gamble a little, me smoke some cigars in the casino, have a drink by the waterfall at the Wynn -smoking a cigar- and then eating some good dinners, but that's all.

I love the Wynn, but we usually stay next door at a casino-less all suite hotel. My wife gets a nice one bedroom suite with kitchen, dining/living room, bedroom and very large bathroom with a spa for less than the Wynn. So we bring our food and wine and make our own breakfast and lunches. It works great. It's a very short walk to the Wynn. And because it faces away from the strip, it's nice and quiet at night on the veranda.

Vegas is not cheap anymore, so for a while we did San Francisco instead because it has (had?) much better cuisine, but that place sadly has really gone to CRAP in the last ten years... so it's Vegas.

We've done Buellton/Solvang and San Luis Obispo (SLO) on occasion, but those are small fry, and Buellton/Solvang, in particular, shuts down after sundown.

Or Palm Springs. That can be nice.

I doubt they have many Teslas in Solvang or SLO. Palm Springs might be more like my area... mostly X and S.

Hell, I recently put up an above ground 10 foot pool in my upstairs deck (it was built for it, tru$$$t me). So with that and the big Brown Jordan table in our atrium it feels like we can vacation in our home.

But I digressed....








There are actually some really nice areas in Vegas. But I digress.



We drove up to Summerlin. Looked at new and used homes. Talked to people who live there. We found folks outside, and we stopped the car and struck up conversations... many of them had come from Orange County to retire in Vegas.

The people were very nice, mostly older and mellow. We could live within Summerlin for sure.

But once you drive down into Vegas proper it's just too much like a combination of East LA, Century City and Disneyland. Hectic, pushy, loud, bad drivers, etc...

Then we checked the crime rate. Wow!

It does have good hospitals and I might get a job working for a civilian contractor in one of them secret AF bases.... should I want to keep working.

Go on and digress.... I don't really mind.





Summerlin, Green Valley, very South Henderson and out toward Pahrump are actually all pretty good areas. We are actually in an area that seems to fly under the radar and haven't had a single issue, so I count myself lucky.

As for status driven, I find it slightly better than LA and honestly, most of the A-hole drivers either have Cali plates or something that identifies them as Cali people. It really is incredible how you can almost always call it without even seeing the plate, and then sure thing, "California" plate number. Same thing growing up in AZ. Maybe it is just that I have decades of observational experience.

To be fair, they don't all drive that way, but I don't really think most Californians can even comprehend how bad they actually do drive.

I can't decide if I like it or not. I love this area of the desert, there is world class cuisine and entertainment, literally any shopping option you can imagine, the people are mostly nice in person, and I am a short drive from just about all of the cool stuff there is to see in the Western US. Cost of living is reasonable, no state income tax is a plus, and my parents aren't too far away.

But, it is a poster child of the decay of humanity, which I guess is to be expected from a city that was built on doing all of the stuff that you aren't supposed to do and literally caters to every vice that exists.

The driving roads are also worse than AZ's, although a fairly high speed tour of the Lake Mead Rec area is pretty awesome, as is Valley of Fire.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-11-2018 19:56
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
qingcong wrote:
owequitit wrote:


Well, let's break it down.

1) He talks about it being an "American owned company." But what is an "American Company?" According to him, it is a company with its headquarters in America that uses American workers to build cars. It's a very quaint 1960's view of auto manufacturing (ironically about the time Goldwater was running, and ironically a 50 year old world view).

The problem with this assumption is that A) their STOCK (shareholders are the real owners) is owned and trade worldwide. Their revenue is derived from sources located worldwide and increasingly, their revenue will not only be sourced from places like China, but their cars will be built there as well. B) Much of their parts content comes from overseas, so if it is made of foreign parts that are merely put together in the US, does that make it an American company?

Are Honda and Toyota American companies? They both have headquarters here, they both employee thousands of workers here and manufacture upwards of 1 million cars annually here using American workers in American factories. They both use parts that are predominantly built in America and sell the majority of their volume to Americans (we are still both companies largest single market).

Both Honda and Toyota build cars that are largely designed and developed in America.

Both Honda and Toyota sell ownership stakes on the American stock exchange.

Both Honda and Toyota spend a large % of their profits and R&D money in America (as opposed to hoarding it overseas as is assumed by Goldwater era "conservatives"). Interestingly, in the last 50 years, GM, Ford and Chrysler have increasingly moved manufacturing OUT of the US, have increasingly sourced parts from OUTSIDE the US and have increasingly outsourced R&D facilities to companies there were performing the functions outside of the US. Are THEY American companies?

2) The Europeans are growing in the US (or at least they were until Trump started his tariff wars), the Japanese have been here for decades and the "US" automakers have increasingly moved their capacity elsewhere to chase cheap labor.

3) Tesla has vehemently opposed unionization by the UAW (not that I blame them). But as any good American parading in the vein of Goldwater, the right for workers to assemble and seek representation should be respected... After all, not only would that be the more libertarian way, but it is all part of the free market working.

The reason his views are 50 years old is because his statements indicate directly that he has no idea the way the modern market works and has worked for some time. "American" company doesn't mean what it did the context of how he used it.

Yes, people SHOULD be allowed to buy what they want, but to proselytize Tesla as being any different than any other multi-national company just doesn't make sense. I drive Hondas and if there was ever a car that had its masculinity challenged, it is Honda.




So in your view, is there such a thing as an American company these days?



My view doesn't have much to do with it. I was commenting on the viewpoint of a "Goldwater" conservative, whose view was clearly decades behind reality.

Globalization killed that viewpoint in the 70's and 80's.

incubus
Profile for incubus
Re: 2 of 5 top tradeins on Tesla 3 are Hondas    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-12-2018 21:04
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Umm who identifies as a Goldwater Republican? The dude opposed the civil rights act of 1964.

 
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